Never Underestimate the Stupidity, er, Narrow-Focused Thinking of a Bank, Especially Online

Not that long ago, my Husband and I (no, I’m not Queen Elizabeth, but it’s ok to read that part in her bitten-off high-pitched voice, I always do) opened a joint no fee chequing account at President’s Choice Financial. Because we wanted to open it with the least delay, we filled out the applications at the kiosk at a grocery store. Most of the procedure went well but here’s the exception.

Linking Our PC Financial No Fee Chequing Account to our Big 5 Chequing Account

To facilitate transfers from yet another no fee joint chequing account, this one at one of the Big 5 Canadian banks, we filled out a form at the PC Financial “office” at our local grocery store. So we were attempting to link two joint chequing accounts together. Sounds relatively simple, right?

Well apparently not. About two weeks after we applied, we received a form in the mail to sign and send back authorizing the link. We’d already filled out what was either the same form or a very similar one while at the kiosk. We’d also already spoken with “head office” about the link while we were at the kiosk. Anyway, we assumed they’d ~~screwed up~~ decided they needed additional information, so my husband completed the form and signed it and I mailed it back. (At least they provided a postage-paid envelope.)

It is important to note, at this point, that my husband did all of these steps both at the kiosk and on the mail-in form. PC Financial has to set a “principal bank account owner” on joint accounts, and we agreed to make him the principal. So I did not speak to anyone at head office or sign any forms.

Another few weeks passed. I kept checking whether I could transfer to the other bank. Nothing. I began to wonder whether I should phone to find out why.

Then a light bulb went off.

PC Financial Uses Your Debit Card Number Not Your Account Number for Signing In

When you sign in to your PC Financial no fee chequing account using online banking, you use the number on your ABM card as your account number. You don’t actually use the bank account number.

This is kind of odd because in the case of a joint account, like ours, we each have ABM cards with different numbers.

So I decided, out of curiousity, and a healthy dose of suspicion, to have my husband sign in to the PC Financial system using HIS card.

PC Financial Did Not Link Joint Accounts Jointly

Sure enough, the JOINT accounts are linked when we access the JOINT bank account with HIS card. ONLY.

Does this strike anyone else as stupid?!

Computers are Dangerous Because They Do EXACTLY What We Tell Them to Do

I’ve been around long enough (remember Fortran 77?!) to know the principal danger of computers is that they do exactly what we tell them to do. They do not say “Hey, that sounds like a stupid idea. I bet you really want me to do this, right?” They just follow their code.

So this inability of me to transfer money from my joint account to my joint account using my ABM card isn’t really a sign of stupidity on the part of PC Financial. It’s a sign of a computer being programmed to do one thing and only that one thing. (We won’t ask out loud, though, about the programming team that set up the code this way. I’ll be generous and assume that all programming decisions were made by a committee, and we all know what happens then.)

Stay Tuned for Further Episodes in this Ongoing Saga

So I guess my next step is to call or write PC Financial to find out how *I* can get the two accounts linked so I can make transfers when I sign on.

CAUTION! Don’t Share your PC Financial Password Even with your Wife (or Husband)

Why, you might ask, don’t I just sign in under my husband’s ABM number to transfer the money? Because according to the brochure “Legal stuff” PC Financial gave us when opening the account, if I do, PC Financial will hold him responsible for ANY fraudulent activity in the account whether I am committing the fraud or whether his card gets compromised at a bank machine or grocery store!

Here’s the actual quote:
“If losses occur by bank machine or Interac Direct Payment
You will be responsible for ALL losses if

you authorize anyone else to use your card, PIN, password or the answers to your personal verification questions”

Note it doesn’t say that the loss has to result from the activities of the same person to whom you told the password.

Wish me luck on getting transfer access myself.

Related Reading

How to Set Up a Joint PC Financial No Fee Chequing Account in Person

Join In
How long did it take you to get an external account hooked up to your PC Financial account? I’ll never know now how long it took us because they hooked up my husband’s account not mine and he wasn’t watching. Please share your experiences with a comment.

Once you have opened and funded a self-directed investing account with CIBC Investor’s Edge you can buy shares of the stock of publicly traded companies from those listed on exchanges like the TSX and the NYSE. Before you buy, you need to have enough cash in your account to pay for the shares plus to pay the trading commission. You can limit the amount you pay per share or reduce the number of shares you buy, if necessary, to ensure you have enough cash handy to cover both costs. You can place a limit your purchase order with Investor’s Edge and this article will include a description of how to do it.

First, you may want to review the suggestions in How to Get Ready to Buy Shares of Stock in a Company.

Before you submit an order, you should know:

How many shares you want to buy
Whether you will buy all the shares in one batch, or buy several batches over time
What is the most you will pay per share
Whether you can accept the risk that the price will go up above what you expected to pay
Whether you can accept the risk of paying “too much” if the price drops after you set a fixed price at which to buy
What it will cost you to complete a trade
That you will have the cash ready to settle the trade in your account when it’s needed
Whether you will be paid the next dividend, if applicable
What the price history looks like for the stock

How to Enter an Equity Buy Order with CIBC Investor’s Edge

Go to CIBC Investor’s Edge at: https://www.investorsedge.cibc.com/ie/
To sign in to your CIBC Investor’s Edge account/s:
1. In the User ID field, type your User ID.
2. In the Password field, type your password.
3. Click on the Sign On button.
If applicable, from your list of accounts, click on the link for the account you wish to make the purchase in and review your holdings.
For example, I selected my RRSP account.
On the left side of the screen, click on the Trading link.
The Stock Order Entry screen will open, which is what we want.

Check the Current (Real Time) Price for an Equity Using CIBC Investor’s Edge

In the Symbol field, type the trading symbol for the company you are interested in.
For example, I typed: CGX
Select the market by clicking on the radio button beside Cdn or US
Click on the Get Real Time Quote button.
On the right side of the screen, a small chart will display the current price and how much it is up or down since the open price.
It will list
- the time of the last trade as the hour:minute:second
- the Bid and Ask prices
- the Bid and Ask Lots
- the High and Low for the day, and
- the Volume
You can also see the cash balance in your account above the pricing information.
You can update the price by clicking on the Get Real Time Quote button again.
You have to keep clicking it if you want to see the most recent price.For a very active stock like TD, the price jump significantly several times a minute.
You cannot get automatically updated real-time quotes with a basic Investor’s Edge account. Since you are not a day trader that shouldn’t matter much to you anyway.
If you still want to buy, here are the next steps:

How to Submit a Buy Order for Shares at CIBC Investor’s Edge

Check once more that the account number is for the correct account (e.g. your RRSP, TFSA etc.)
Click to select the radio button beside Buy.
In the Symbol field, type the trading symbol for the company.
For example, I typed CGX.
Select the market by clicking on the radio button beside Cdn or US
Click on the Get Real Time Quote button.
In the Quantity field, type the number of shares you wish to buy.
NOTE: The Market Price is changing every second. Your total cost may go up or down!
Make sure you will have enough cash to pay for the shares PLUS the trading commission.Consider whether you want to buy at the Market Price.
Personally I never do. I always enter a price limit. Yes, sometimes this means I pay too much for a stock, if the price drops after I set my order. However I have never had to pay more than I expected for a stock.From the Order Price list click to select the radio button to choose
Limit
- To state exactly what price you are willing to pay.
CAUTION:
- If the stock begins to fall in price, your trade will get filled on the way down and you may pay more than other people for the stock.
- If you set the price limit too low, no one will sell you their shares and your order will not fill. (You will not be charged a commission if your order does not fill.) For example, I could put in a buy order for CGX at $5, but unless there is a major computer system error, it would not fill.
Market
- You take a chance and pay what the stock is trading for at the second your trade is executed; or
Stop
- Stop orders aren’t particularly applicable to purchases. I’ll try to discuss these is another article later.
If you select Limit, type in the amount you are willing to pay per share in the $ field.
From the Order Expiry list, click to select the radio button to choose
- Order Good for Day
- Good Through
If you choose to have the order good for several days, and you select Good Through, choose the month and day from the drop-down list or calendar. You can select a date up to 30 calendar days away. Your order will remain in place until the end of the business day on the date you choose, or until the order fills if it fills before that date.
Click on the Next button.
Check the information on the Verify screen.
- To the right side, check the estimated cost of the transaction, including the commission, and your account cash balance.
- Check the Company name is what you expect. (Some companies have very similar trading symbols and prices!)
If everything looks good, type your password in the Trading Password field.
Click on the Submit Order button.
If you were too slow filling in the password and clicking Submit Order you may have to try again. I believe this is to ensure if you are placing a Market order that the price won’t have changed too much while you were stalling, but I’m not sure.
A confirmation screen for your order will be displayed.
You may wish to copy and paste this Order Confirmation into a document and save it for reference.
You’re done!

To Set a Trade Fill Alert

At the top of the Confirmation screen, you may see a message that says you have Trade Fill Alerts set to off.
If you want to turn them on, click on the Trade Fill Alerts link in that sentence.
Type your email address in the Email Address text field.
Check the box beside the account for which you wish to receive Fill alerts.
For example, I check the box beside our RRSP account.
Click on the Save Changes button.

To Review Your Order

(For more detailed information, please also see Reviewing Your Orders for a CIBC Investor’s Edge Account.)

From the left hand list of links, select Order Status.
A list of your orders is displayed. You can see quickly if the order is open, filled or expired.

Unlike the BMO InvestorLine order status, you can see at a glance the details of the order, such as the price limit, without any more clicking. (Score one for Investor’s Edge!)

Securely End Your Session

If you have finished using CIBC Investor’s Edge, click on the Sign Off link.
For increased security, close your browser session.