How to Buy a Guaranteed Investment Certificate, GIC, at Tangerine

Right now, the interest rates offered for GICs are very low. I would not actually recommend buying a GIC at these rates unless it’s the only fixed income investment you can find that fits your portfolio. However, I am trying to review the products and services offered by PC Financial and Tangerine, so today I checked into how to buy a GIC.

Are Tangerine GICs Redeemable?

In the old days, when the company was ING Direct, you used to be able to cash their GICs. Technically, that meant they weren’t really conventional guaranteed investment certificates. In general, GICs cannot be cashed until they mature. ING Direct used to even pay you interest if you cashed your GICs before maturity: Admittedly they paid less interest than if you held them to maturity, but it was still some compensation for tying up your money.

Recently, however, ING Direct Canada was purchased by Scotiabank. And even more recently, this ability to cash GICs early and even receive a small amount of interest has vanished from their product descriptions.

*** However today (June 25, 2014) when I bought a GIC I discovered that the option still exists, at least for now! When I reached the “Here’s What’s Going to Happen” review screen, I noticed the details about what I was buying said “You may redeem this GIC before the end of the term, but if you do, you will not receive the posted rate of interest. Instead, a fixed annual Early Redemption Rate of 0.5% will apply.”

So apparently you may have to *almost* buy a GIC and check whether or not it is still cashable. They could change this offer at any time. You can’t tell till you have almost paid for the GIC.

How Much Do I Have to Invest In Each GIC at Tangerine? What’s the Minimum?

If you do need to buy GICs and if they are not cashable early or if they are cashable but you are not likely to need the entire amount at one time, it’s a good idea to buy several smaller GICs with different maturity dates.

For example, if you have $5000 to invest, you could buy a $500 GIC each month for 10 months. Then you will get access to $500 (plus interest) of your cash each month as they mature.

If you are buying GICs at a discount online brokerage, you may have to invest a minimum of $5000 to get one GIC. (RBC Direct Investing let’s you invest as little as $3500 for one GIC in a RRSP; BMO InvestorLine and CIBC Investor’s Edge require $5000 per GIC in a RRSP.)

How small an amount will Tangerine allow you to invest in a GIC?

Well, I tried buying a regular GIC with an amount of $1 and it was rejected. The error message says: “For this Account, transaction amounts need to be at least $10.”

That’s interesting. The interest rate for a 1.5 year GIC is posted as 1.55%. If I invest $10 I will earn 15.5 cents after 18 months. I wonder if they will round it up to 16 cents, or down to 15? I’ll have to check in 18 months.

What Types of GICs Can I Buy at Tangerine.ca?

Registered and Non-Registered GICs from Tangerine

There are several choices:

  • GIC
  • RSP GIC
  • TF GIC Be careful! This is a TFSA GIC and counts as part of your TFSA!*
    (Believe it or not, there is a person appealing for forgiveness from the CRA because he thought it was just “tax free” and not part of his TFSA, so he over-contributed to his TFSA and now faces a fine of $50 a month. Why it would be “tax free” if it wasn’t a TFSA is beyond me. But be informed: a TF GIC is a TFSA investment.)
  • RIF GIC
  • US$ GIC

If you buy a RSP GIC

  • and pay for it with money from your savings or chequing account you are making a new contribution to your RRSP.
  • and pay for it with money from your RSP Savings account, you are not making a new contribution.

If you buy a TF GIC

  • and pay for it with money from your savings or chequing account you are making a new contribution to your TFSA.
  • and pay for it with money from your TFSA Savings account, you are not making a new contribution.

Check your RRSP and TFSA contribution room before making any new contributions to avoid penalties for over-contributing.

Terms to Maturity for GICs from Tangerine

There are also several choices for the length of the term to maturity.

Tangerine offers GICs with terms of

  • 90 days
  • 180 days
  • 270 days
  • 1 year
  • 1.5 years
  • 2 years
  • 3 years
  • 4 years
  • 5 years

WATCH the interest rates before buying, though. Right now, the terms shorter than 1 year are paying less interest than keeping your money in their savings account!

Annual Pay or Compound Interest GICs from Tangerine

You can also select whether to receive your interest payment at the end of each year, for a multi-year GIC, or to leave it with the principal to earn compound interest until the end of the GIC’s term.

For example, if you buy a 5-year GIC, you can get paid your interest at the end of each of years 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, or you can leave the interest in the GIC and receive all 5 years’ interest, plus the interest earned on the interest itself, at the end of the five years.

How to Invest in a GIC at Tangerine.ca

  1. Log in to your Tangerine account/s.
  2. From the Saving link on the navigation bar at the top of the screen, select Guaranteed Investments.
  3. For a regular GIC (not in your RRSP, TFSA, RRIF or in US$) beside the heading Tangerine Guaranteed Investment (GIC) click on the Learn More button. Read through the information about this product.
  4. If the information looks ok and you want to buy a GIC click on the Open an Account button.

To Buy a Regular Tangerine GIC

  1. In the Amount $ field, type how much you want to invest in this one certificate.
  2. If applicable, click to select USD or leave it to select Canadian dollars.
  3. If you have a purpose for the GIC such as saving for your child’s dental work, you can type in a reminder in the Nickname text box.
    I typed: super low investment.
  4. From the Account term drop-down list, select the length of time you want to invest the money.
    For example, pick a 1.5 year term for a GIC that matures 1 year and 6 months from today.
  5. From the Fund from this account drop-down list, select where to get the money to buy the GIC.
  6. If you want to delay the purchase, click on the Effective Date field and select which day you wish to buy the GIC.
  7. From the Maturity instructions drop-down list, select whether you want the money paid out to your bank account when the GIC matures or whether you want to have Tangerine immediately buy you a new GIC with the same term instead.
    (Since you can’t cash most GICs, it’s probably better for most people to have the GIC pay out to your bank account in cash when it matures so that you can consider what you want to do next before you commit.)
  8. From the Interest options drop-down list, for a GIC with a term of more than one year, you can choose whether Tangerine will pay you the interest for the previous year into your bank account; or whether it will keep it in the GIC so that you will earn interest on your interest in the following year/s.
    NOTE: If the GIC is not in a RRSP, RRIF or TFSA you will have to pay income tax on the interest each year even if you don’t get paid the interest that year!
  9. From the Selected Account for payout drop-down list, select where you want Tangerine to pay the interest and the principal when the GIC matures.
  10. If necessary, change the answer to Is this a joint Account? To Yes; otherwise leave it to the default setting of No.
  11. For legal reasons, confirm that you are the only person benefitting from this investment. (e.g. that you are not investing money for another company or person.)
  12. From the drop-down list, select why you are saving the money.
  13. Click on the links to read through the Terms and Conditions and the Privacy Code statements. The more important information is located under the Account Terms link at https://www.tangerine.ca/en/legal/account-terms/index.html  If the information is acceptable, click on the Yes button to accept them.
  14. Click on the Next button.

If you put in an acceptable amount for the Amount, you will move on to the
You’re almost done… here’s what’s going to happen
review page.

  1. Read the details for what you’re planning to buy.
    Wow. My investment will mature on Christmas Day in 2015. That’s sweet. Imagine getting 15 or even 16 cents for Christmas!
  2. Everything looks good, so I will click on the Confirm button.
  3. Click on the Print button to print a copy of this transaction. This is important because if you want to cash your GIC early you may need to have the proof from this page that you are entitled to receive a low interest rate of 0.5% if you have kept the investment long enough.
  4. Once you’ve finished printing the receipt, click on the Continue Banking button.
  5. If you’re finished banking, click on the Log Me Out link.
  6. To increase security, clear your browser cache and close your browser session.

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Do you buy GICs to lock up your money so you don’t spend it recklessly? If you do, does a cashable GIC make sense? Please share your views with a comment.

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I Doubt I Will Ever Fully Understand Fixed Income Investing in Bonds and GICs

We are ultra-conservative investors and are extremely averse to losing money. So while we have some money in the stock market we also have a large amount in fixed income investments. In particular, we have GICs and a Bond fund. And I’m beginning to doubt I will ever fully understand fixed income investing.

Weren’t Bond Returns Supposed to Collapse Last Year or This?

I’ve lost track of how many years in a row I’ve heard that Bonds are about to crash. Several people we know who work in the financial industry advised us to get out of our Bond fund two years ago.

As I’m a major procrastinator and ditherer, we didn’t get out of it yet. We did stop adding new money, though.

In 2011, our bond fund increased in value by about 8.4% after fees and commissions with no new contributions. (This was a surprise.)

In 2012, the decision to leave the money in the bond fund was a good one. (Good because we only need our fixed income to try to match inflation. We get our growth from our stock investments.) Our bond fund increased in value by about 3.75% after fees and commissions, with no new contributions in 2012.

In 2013, it cost us money. Our bond fund decreased in value by 0.93% after fees and commissions with no new contributions in 2013.

Then, something truly bizarre happened. Between December 31, 2013 and January 31, 2014, our bond fund increased in value by 2.46% after fees and commissions with no new contributions. Talk about unexpected!

By the end of February, the bond fund had increased in value 2.8% over its value on December 31. Colour me confused.

Why Don’t I Just Ditch the Bond Fund?

The reason I haven’t bailed on the Bond fund is because it’s part of a Defined Contribution pension plan. There are NO other fixed income choices in the plan, unless you count a Money Market fund that has been known to generate negative returns. So I would have to dump it all into the stock market, something I am very reluctant to do.

I’m hoping instead to slowly shift investments in our TFSAs and RRSPs towards fixed income so that I can gradually move the Bond Fund holdings into the market. But the other factor at play is that the market funds I can go into aren’t the ones I would pick for my RRSP. (E.g. they are not “buy the entire stock market with an incredibly low MER” funds.)

Why are GIC Rates Falling So Sharply In 2014?

I also don’t understand what happened to GIC rates in late 2013 and early 2014.  All through 2011, 2012 and early 2013, I would often see rates for 1 year GICs between 1.75-2.1%.

In 2014, I haven’t seen 1 year’s (on BMO InvestorLine) with rates higher than 1.65%. Even during “RRSP season.”

Does this have something to do with the slow ending of Quantitative Easing in the US? With the minor changes made to the exchange rate between the Chinese Yuan and the US Dollar? With the continuing Real Estate boom in Canada’s biggest cities? The Bank of Canada key rate is about the same. Mortgage rates aren’t hugely different. Is it Jim Flaherty’s fault? If so, now he’s retiring will that help?

I’ve been annoyed to discover that very few people report on fixed income issues. There must be 30 different articles on what the TSX did yesterday but I can’t find one on what Bonds or GICs did.

This is despite the fact that, according to The Ultimate Guide to the Canadian Bond Market, in the first quarter of 2011, the daily average trading volume in the Canadian bond market alone was 38.42 Billion dollars. Daily!

That sure makes my fixed income retirement savings look puny.

What Rate of Inflation Am I Trying to Match?

As I said, we’re hoping during this period of low interest rates for our fixed income investments to hold their own against inflation. We expect our growth (stock) investments, though, may have to help pull them back in the black.

I calculated our overall personal rate of inflation in 2012 at 1.6%. Over the period 2001-2012 our personal rate of inflation was about 2.3%.  Both are probably a bit low as the numbers used to calculate them don’t include the costs of food or clothing. So I’ve been mentally using 2-3% as my estimated personal rate of inflation. Since I lived through the 80’s, though, I wouldn’t be surprised to see 11-20% inflation again in the future.

If our Bond fund doesn’t lose any ground (or gain any) from where it is today in March, it has earned enough this year to match inflation.

So what should I do? Bail on the Bond fund and stick it into the Money Market fund for the rest of the year? You do know that Money Market funds can LOSE money, right? That doesn’t appeal to me much.

Stick it in the Equity Market funds? While markets are at or near all time highs? Seems a tad risky to someone who is extremely risk averse.

Yep, I’m dithering again. I sure wish someone with a crystal ball could tell me exactly what will happen and when. For now, I expect I’ll just leave it in the Bond Fund and get back to work. Maybe I can earn and save enough new money to cover the losses when they happen…..

And I’ll try to work my way through the book In Your Best Interest to see what I can learn. (Science fair projects and Spring Musical rehearsals permitting.)

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Do you have a portion of your portfolio in Fixed Income investments? What information sources do you try to follow to keep up with this changing market? Please share your insights with a comment.