Tag Archives: RRSP

It’s Official: Tangerine is Charging a Fee to Transfer your RRSP or TFSA to Another Bank

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Although I have yet to receive a notice from Tangerine either by email or by the message system they use within your bank account online, it appears to be official that Tangerine will be charging a $45 fee to transfer out your RRSP or TFSA balance.

UPDATE: I received a email notice inside my Tangerine account messages section on December 20 that advised that as of January 19 2015 I would have to pay a $45 fee to transfer out a RRSP or TFSA.

I updated my website with warnings when the rumour of this fee first appeared back in mid-October 2014. To date, I still have received no information directly from Tangerine about this new fee.

Tangerine Will Charge a $45 Fee to Transfer Out a RRSP

In the Frequently Asked Questions on the Tangerine site, it says they charge $45 to transfer out a RRSP.  It does not say when this new fee is applicable! I was told on the phone that it would be in January 2015 but that is not clear here.

Will Tangerine Charge a Fee to Transfer Out a TFSA?

At this point, Tangerine has not yet said anything about a TFSA transfer out fee on their website. Nor have I received any notice by mail, email or message.

For a TFSA, one way to avoid a fee is to wait till December. Instead of transferring your funds, withdraw them. Then on January 1 of the next year and NOT BEFORE you can contribute them into your TFSA at another institution. If you deposit them in the same year you withdraw them you will be fined 1% a month by the CRA. You MUST wait till January 1 of the next year.

Will Tangerine Now Refund a Fee Charged by Another Bank for Transferring a TFSA or RRSP into Tangerine?

In the past, I moved a cash RRSP into Tangerine (when it was called ING Direct.) I asked if they would pay me back the fee that the other bank charged me for moving out my RRSP. They replied that because they did not charge a fee for transferring a RRSP away from Tangerine, they also would not pay a refund for a fee charged for transferring a RRSP in to Tangerine.

So has that now changed? Will they pay up to $45 to cover the fee paid to transfer a RRSP from another bank into Tangerine?

I’ve sent that question to Tangerine and will update this article when they reply.

UPDATE: Ok the reply so far is not encouraging. I emailed to inquire and was told that because I have an account with Tangerine I have to phone them to discuss this. That suggests they don’t have a formal policy yet although if you are interested in transferring in, I would suggest you call and see if they will reimburse your fee.

The worrying part was they also said that owners of registered products had been notified of the “transfer out” change via the messaging system within their account. I have several registered products and have not received any type of notice!

I’ll provide additional updates if/when I can get them.

Can Tangerine Start Charging a Transfer Out Fee Without Any Formal Notice to Customers?

Usually banks warn you a few weeks or months ahead of time when they are changing their fees.

So far I have not received any notice from Tangerine about this new fee. I have not received a letter, an email, a message when I sign in to my accounts, a message on the message system inside my account, or even a few words written in my October banking statements about it.

Do they have to give notice of this fee?

That’s hard to find out! In the USA, they clearly do. The US Government Consumer Financial Protection Bureau website says “a bank or credit union can start charging you fees…[if they notify] you in writing at least 30 days before it starts charging fees….”

I wrote the Canadian Bankers Association, CBA, on November 18, 2014 to ask if there is any required notice for new fees. Unfortunately, they chose to respond that I should direct my question to the federal government’s Financial Consumer Agency.

The (federal) Department of Finance Canada appears to be working on a new Financial Consumer Protection framework, judging by a consultation paper from December 2013 posted online. It’s not clear to me whether this is one of the issues that may be included.

I will update this article if I get any further information about requirements from the Financial Consumer Agency.

UPDATE 1: They have replied that I should expect to wait 10 business days for a reply.

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Have you recently been zinged with a new or an increased banking fee? Did they warn you in advance or was it a total shock? Please share your experiences with a comment.

Simplifying and Improving Our RRSPs: a Review of the Progress Made Over 4 Years

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It’s amazing how much more time you have once your children are in school and the eldest is old enough to be left “home alone” even if only for a 5-minute bike ride to the mailbox. When we reached this milestone in parenthood, I finally had the time to start looking at where our money was and why and deciding what changes were needed. One of the first messes that needed to be cleaned up was our RRSPs: It’s taken 4 years to simplify and improve our RRSP holdings but things are progressing well.

What We Started With

Four years ago I wasn’t even sure

  • where our RRSP money was,
  • how much was in each place,
  • what the rate of return was on the money, and
  • whether we should be doing something differently with it.

I read a few books about RRSPs and one piece of advice struck home immediately.

Why You Should Always Designate a Beneficiary for Your RRSP

Four years ago, we already had our wills and the wills designated that my husband and I will inherit each other’s assets if one of us dies. What I didn’t know, though, was that if a RRSP has a designated beneficiary, the value of the RRSP is not included in the amount that the government uses to calculate the probate fee or, as Ontario now calls it, the Estate Administration Tax.

For example, say I had $100 000 in my RRSP and I died. If my RRSP did not have a beneficiary named, that $100 000 would be added to my other assets and that total amount would be taxed by the Ontario government as a condition of probating my estate. If my other assets were worth, say, $50 000, the government would charge an Estate Administration Tax of $1 750.

If I had designated my husband as the beneficiary of my RRSP, he would not have to include the $100 000 value of my RRSP in the amount used to calculate the estate administration tax. That means the tax would be calculated based on the other $50 000 in my estate. The total payable would be $250.

That’s right. He would not have to pay $1 500 in tax.

Just for having his name on a slip of paper filed at the bank!

So the first thing I did was get a Beneficiary form filled out and properly filed for each of our RRSPs.

Neither of us has died yet but it still feels like we’ve saved thousands of dollars.

Where Our RRSP Money Was

We had quite a collection of RRSP accounts 4 years ago.

I eventually determined we had

  • a RRSP invested in mutual funds and GICs at CIBC
  • another RRSP in a GIC at CIBC
  • a RRSP each holding Canada Premium Savings Bonds in the Canada Retirement Savings Plan
  • a RRSP each in GICs and cash at ING Direct (now Tangerine)
  • a spousal RRSP in GICs at ING Direct (now Tangerine)
  • a locked-in RRSP at BMO in GICs and high interest savings accounts
  • a RRSP at BMO in mutual funds and GICs
  • a RRSP at BMO in a high interest savings account

Argh! Can you see why I desperately needed to fix this up?

For anyone who is deadly curious, the mutual funds included

  • index funds mirroring the performance of the TSX and the NYSE (purchased before ETFs existed)
  • funds holding mortgages
  • funds holding bonds in Canada, the USA and internationally

Where Our RRSP Money Is

We are not finished consolidating our RRSP holdings yet. Unfortunately, you cannot simply transfer GICs from, say, CIBC to CIBC Investor’s Edge. Don’t ask me why. I’m pretty sure it has to do with making the bank more money at our expense, though.

Still, it’s looking a bit better:

  • a RRSP each at BMO InvestorLine
  • a LIRA at BMO InvestorLine
  • a RRSP at CIBC Investor’s Edge
  • a spousal RRSP at RBC Direct Investing
  • a GIC RRSP at CIBC that we will be able to transfer to Investor’s Edge in 2015 on maturity
  • a GIC RRSP at Tangerine that we will be able to transfer to BMO InvestorLine in 2015 on maturity

The CIBC Investor’s Edge RRSP could be consolidated with one of the BMO InvestorLine ones, but to avoid paying transfer fees it’s best to wait till the GICs at CIBC mature and the money can transfer fee-free up to the Investor’s Edge account. Then, if desired, the entire amount can transfer out to InvestorLine. Or, conversely, the InvestorLine account could transfer in to Investor’s Edge. That would bring us down from 10 accounts to 4.

The spousal RRSP is at RBC Direct Investing primarily so I could investigate their trading platform in more depth! It could be transferred out at any time but I’m happy to keep it there. As a spousal it cannot combine with any other RRSP so it really makes little difference which brokerage it is kept at. (All of our RRSPs qualify for the lowest trading commissions etc at their respective brokerages.)

The optimization of the holdings within the RRSPs continues. I’m sure it will be the subject of more articles in the future.

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Did you make the mistake of opening a new RRSP at a different bank each time you moved? Did you ever despair and refuse to read your RRSP mutual fund statements for over a year? Please share your RRSP escapades and foibles with a comment.